Two Geeks Episode 96 – Totally Geekin!!!
Monday, March 30th, 2009
In this episode our lovable hosts spend some time discussing so recent big events on the small screens as well as some interesting news on the big screen. Since there is so much news this week, look out for this giant sized episode, okay so may that is a bit of an exaggeration but guess what we have an actual timely review of Monsters vs. Aliens so that’s cool right?
Battlestar Galacita Finale
Party Down
Dollhouse Update
News
Marvel To Launch Writers Program
Sean Penn, Jim Carrey and Benicio Del Toro are The Three Stooges
Trailers
Where the Wild Things Are
Year One
Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs
Reviews
I Love You, Man
Monsters vs. Aliens
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I’m very excited about Where the Wild Things Are. Maurice Sendak is one of my favorite artists and I see a lot of his style in the movie which makes me very happy and it just looks fun and weird which always make the best kid’s movies.
Although Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs looks… hmmm. I dunno, it felt very Nickelodeon-y to me.
Throwing it out there- top five picture books:
“Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day,” “Chicken Soup With Rice”
“Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs.”
“Each Peach Pair Plum”
“The Lorax”
I loved The Lorax. It was political and I was to young to know it.
But after that for me the list would be all Robert Munsch Books.
The Paper bag Princess
Murmel Murmel Murmel
Moira’s Birthday
Mortimer
Mostly because I read them the most and at 28 I still remember them pretty much word for word.
Though I did love ‘Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Day’
Oh yes! How could I forget Paper Bag Princess! Such a brilliant, brilliant little story.
I also loved all of Seuess’s “political children’s books” like The Butter Battle and Yertle the Turtle.
Okay, apparently Bruce Campbell is doing a voice in Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs.
I’m officially sold.
I agree with Ben, the 3D in Monsters VS Aliens didn’t ave enough depth, but then when it did get gimmicky it was very surprising as you forgot about the 36 effect, I did see the 3D trailer for Up at this movie and that looked completely immersive.
Good for Ben for liking the BSG finale. I loved it, and I’ve been tired of seeing people complain about it.
The fictional city of Pawnee, Indiana.
I’m glad people were able to enjoy the BSG final, I have sort of a love / hate relationship with it.
I wish people could enjoy it without being so defensive. There are some legitimate and difficult to dismiss issues with it.
I had so much fun with Monsters vs Aliens. I can’t wait to take my nephew to go see it this weekend
…
I’m not done yet, but I just have to say this.
I know MANY people who love Firefly and never watched an episode of Buffy or Angel. My cousins, several friends in college, and even people I work with; it really isn’t uncommon to find Firefly fans who either don’t like Buffy/Angel or simply never watched Buffy/Angel.
Also, looooooooooove your measure of television success, guys. Classy.
Oh, and DC is Superman is DC, ergo Superman sucking makes DC suck. Fin.
Although I disagree with the DC comment (although, to be fair I’m not a huge comic reader), yeah, the success comments on about Joss’ shows were really douchey.
Popular doesn’t necessarily mean good or vice versa. Freaks and Geeks, for example, was canceled like Firefly and is a really beloved (both critically and by fans) and was a great show imo. So what if it wasn’t popular? Does that mean the creators aren’t legit?
Two and Half Men is the most popular sitcom on TV, yet How I Met Your Mother is always in jeopardy of being canceled after every season.
Is 2 1/2 Men better than HIMYM? Are the writers and creators of HIMYM doing something wrong?
Our comments were no more douchey than Joss’ comments about DC movies…
Yes they were.
I can respect the complaints about the shows but the personal attacks on the guys character were pretty douchey and uninformed. I mean since the marketing is done by Fox and not Whedon, it would appear obvious to me that naming his resume is a bid to get the attention of past Buffy or Angel fans instead of a chance for him to force people to stroke his ego.
‘From the creator of Buffy’ just means that the marketing people know his name won’t attract viewers like Buffy will.
He made bitter and stupid remarks about a company, but you attacked him personally.
Once again I must reiterate that these statements on the show are opinion and not fact, we don’t know whether or not its really ego, or just marketing. However I do think its odd that FOX would think that putting ads that say that a show is from the creator of two other shows that not that many people actually watched anyway. That’s all I’m saying, its seems like there might be a little ego there, but of course we can’t know for sure. It just seems to me that this is all about ego, Joss was hurt by the way he was treated by Warner Bros over the whole Wonder Woman thing.
I don’t mean that to say that Joss hasn’t been successful. I mean he’s had way more success than myself in Hollywood. However I think that before he can criticize other creators and character for not working, he should at least have an actual hit show or movie under his belt. For all the popularity that Buffy and Angel had they were still on the WB, and Firefly and Serenity were not popular at all. They were all great shows mind you, but that’s not what this is about. Its about numbers and box office revenue, because that’s what Hollywood is really about. His fans just eat up everything that he says as if it were fact, and I’m just wondering when did he become such an authority on what works and what doesn’t.
I just re-listened to this part of the episode. I don’t think that we said that there all Firefly fans like Buffy and Angel. What we actually said that there are no fans of Firefly that don’t know who Joss is and would come into a new Joss show and not already know who he was.
There is more than just Superman in the DC Universe, and to make a judgement like that is uninformed, and just a matter of opinion. You can’t just make a judgement like that and state it as fact.
I was at the Dollhouse panel at comic-con back in Feb and someone asked him during the Q&A some stupid question about advice for writers. He had a really good answer though. He talked about how at the beginning of his career he DID have success- he was a very successful script doctor for many years- the lead writer on Toy Story and Alien 4 which, by Hollywood terms would be success- but he was miserable. He said nothing he was writing was actually going up on screen, the things he wrote weren’t personal. It wasn’t until Buffy got off the ground that he found happiness through his career and doesn’t care anymore about the typical “success” that most people in the industry care about.
Granted, he can say that already having his nest egg built up, but I give him props for it none-the-less.
Whilst I disagree with what he said about DC, I’m still a member of the cult of Whedon. Though I think we, as a cult, get a lot of weird unfair flak. For instance, after that Dollhouse panel I got home and someone posted an article about it online calling the people in the crowd “ravenous crazy Joss culties.” I was in that line- people were pretty chill (a little same-y same-y but I feel that way all the time at cons) and in fact a lot less obnoxious than the people on line at the Torchwood panel the previous day. Just saying.
As an outsider… the whedonites can be tough to take. Although I understand your concern. In the wake of the release of watchmen I think I’ve been called a “rabid fanboy” in excess of 10 thousand times by various media outlets. All because I enjoy a book.
According to Jeffrey Wells I made up my mind to love it no matter what before it even came out. And according to Patton Oswald I made up my mind to hate it no matter what before it came out. I wish these rabid self proclaimed experts on fandom could make up their mind on what I made up my mind about.
The same thing used to happen all the time with people who really loved Peter Jackson’s take on LotR. I can’t tell you how many posts and articles I read where people said that if you liked it you, well, I won’t re-type the things they said. Suffice it to say it was nasty.
I don’t get where that kind of attitude comes from. It’s one thing to not like something others do and rationally tear it down with reason, it’s a total other thing to just call the fans sycophants and jerks. Everyone has their “thing” their person or fandom they love with total abandon. I’m fine with debating its merits, arguing with its quality and even getting downright heated.
But don’t call it’s fans childish names, or hate for the sake of hating. Fans are just that- fans. They aren’t writers, they aren’t critics, they aren’t journalists- they are just the people who love the works unconditionally. There’s a reason the word fan is derived from “fanatic.”
And I agree- I hate being told what I think by experts like that as well. I went into Watchmen with a total open mind. I came out with a meh feeling. You can argue it with me, but don’t tell me that opinion was preconceived going in.
@ they are just the people who love the works unconditionally.
I love my stuff very conditionally.
As a Joss fan I hate having to say this, but he can come off very arrogant and up himself sometimes…….. not all the time.
I find it odd that the guy that created River Tam is giving other guys flak for creating charecters that are unrelatable and cold.
O.o That doesn’t make sense, or at least River is a bad example. Being crazy was part of her story arc, and remember she was not cold or unrelatable in the end.
DId Firefly have an end?
Um yeah it was ‘Serenity’, but on the show it would have been the end of season two.
PS. The ‘end’ I was referring to was the end of the ‘River is crazy’ story arc that the character was going through.
When does anybody become an authority on works and doesn’t? Hell, Hollywood pros (even the really successful ones) don’t always know what will work.
He was just giving an opinion too.
One I happen to disagree with btw, and I’m a big Whedon fanboy.
I think that when you can put someones name onto a project and not have to even say what they did. That’s when I would call someone and authority. When you say Steven Spielberg do you have to even mention his movies, he even develops video games now.
Are you really going to go the distance with this Ben? Your argument doesn’t cut in your own favor. How do you guys measure up against that same standard?
You and Scott have your own creative project now, which hasn’t achieved “success” in any traditional sense. Does that invalidate your opinions and reviews on two geeks? I certaintly don’t think so.
I would say GBN is successful in it’s own way. In that it has an audience of people who appreciate it. And Whedon’s the same, he’s built an audience of people who appreciate him, except more successful then you guys. And none of you need to achieve mainstream success to justify voicing your opinion.
We should model our thinking on this matter after Uwe Boll. Did he wait until he achieved success before attacking other filmmakers like Mike Bay? Fuck no!
Does his failure mean his criticisms aren’t true and MIke Bay is a good director? Fuck no!
The key difference is that when I say my name, I don’t add “Host of Two Geeks and producer of Geek By Night” at the end. I am a podcaster and as such I can have opinions on other podcasts and look at them from something other than just a fan view point. However, we don’t review podcasts on our show, we review movies and tv shows, and since neither of us are filmmakers then we can only review them from a fan’s perspective. Our podcasts are successful, I am proud of our numbers and how far we have come since we started, but I know that there are many other podcasts more successful than we are. I don’t go around putting them down, or saying that they don’t work just because I don’t like them. I may podcast, but I’m not a podcasting authority. I may have an opinion, but I don’t state it as fact. So really I don’t think that my statements are hypocritical, I’m just a fan stating my opinion. The difference is that when Joss states is “opinion” he does so from a different perspective, and is often thought to be stating fact. We only questioned when Joss became such an authority, not whether or not he had the right to state his opinions.
p.s. Everyone needs to stop giving Michael Bay such a hard time, I’m a Bay fan.
p.s.s. Of course that’s just an opinion and not a fact.
Dude…I like how everyone would give Michael Bay crap about his flicks, then he then makes Transformers, BIG HIT! Then people still give him crap, I don’t get it…
He’s an easy target. He makes big, dumb (and fun) blockbusters.
Transformers might have been a big hit but I thought it sucked, nothing wrong with making blockbusters, I make blockbusters… no wait I work at Blockbuster
Really? Yikes, you’re the last of a dying breed..
I just read Joss’ quote and I have to say that you guys portrayed his whole thing out of context. He was ASKED by Maxim during an interview to speculate on why he thought DC had problems making popular movies. Listening to the podcast I was under the illusion that he was going around putting down DC or acting like he was the authority on all things hollywood or even the subject. He was asked for his opinion and gave it.
His answer seems completely unworthy of this entire situation especially since it was just an honest opinion.
@ Everyone needs to stop giving Michael Bay such a hard time
No.
Hey, no worries. It’d be a shame for you not to use the spiral notebook full of Bay jokes you’ve got tucked away.
Ben, you had to go pretty far out of your way to miss my point by that much. I’m saying that you and Scott have your project Geek By Night, which is a serialized narrative that you both are the creative directors of. But also you don’t shy away from offering up your opinions on other peoples work.
What would you say to someone who wrote into your show and said “Geek By Night sucks. Where do you get off criticizing anyone else?”
That’s not my opinion, I think GBN is coming along well and should be proud of the success you have achieved (which is much less than the success Whedon has achieved). And more to the point I don’t think you need to justify your opinions to some yahoo. But you seem to be holding Whedon to a different standard.
To quote Vern, the my favorite online movie critic and probably the greatest voice in film criticism of our day: “I’ve never baked a wedding cake but I’m still gonna complain if it has cigarette butts and meal worms in it.”
@ The key difference is that when I say my name, I don’t add “Host of Two Geeks and producer of Geek By Night” at the end
@ The difference is that when Joss states is “opinion” he does so from a different perspective, and is often thought to be stating fact.
And lets have no more of this talk. I didn’t read the story behind the quote myself so maybe I’m wrong. But I really doubt that Whedon came out and said “I Joss Whedon creator of such acclaimed and success shows as Buffy and Firefly hereby decree that DC comics suck.”
Was he wearing a crown and ceremonial robe when he said it?
Produce this person who is unable to distinguish between facts and the opinions of a television writer. I will take your silence as an admission that I’m right.
@ Rusty
I think you missed the point of what I was saying.
p.s. I’m officially done defending my opinions here for this.
@ p.s. I’m officially done defending my opinions here for this.
I win!!!!!!
And that, at the end of the day, is all Rusty wants.
And as Ben indifferenly walks away, Rusty James begins his awkward, stilted jig of empty victory…
I case anyone cares we did talk about other things in this episode…
Feel free to discuss
Re: BSG
you’re wrong.
…and were back to the opinion vs. fact debate.
You can’t be wrong when it comes to opinion
You can’t be wrong when it comes to an opinion about subjective things like art (movies, music, etc).
But there are wrong opinions.
If I said, “It’s my opinion that 2 + 2 = 5″.
That opinion would be wrong. And I might argue that even some subjective opinions, that are really far out there, could be wrong too.
If anyone thinks Attack of the Clones is better than Empire Strikes Back, I’m sorry, that opnion is wrong.
WRONG!
What about the opinion that I believe the original star wars movie is INCREDIBLY boring? That one is mine.
Jedi, Empire and Sith are pretty good and clone is watchable. Some people have actually gotten angry at me for thinking this.
I’ll agree with you now.
I Love You Man was great. It exceeded my expectations (which were pretty high, considering I love Paul Rudd and Jason Segal). I really liked Rashida as well.
I also think the writers’ program for Marvel is a great idea. How cool would that be, to be a part of that?
I’m also excited about Year One.
I kinda want to see I Love You Man, but I always feel left out of the joke in these Apatow-y movies…
Yeah, that’ts the one downside to the Apatow-style; its kind of all-male hmuor. I mean, I love them, but I’m the target audience
That’s what I’m ALWAYS telling people. Apatow is great… if you are a guy between 18-30… if you’re not it’s very, frack off… He reuses to highlight funny women. Women in his world are either shrews or sexy chicks…
Really?
Lyndsey was super smart, clever, introspective, rebellious but moral, and funny in Freaks and Geeks. Catherine Keener was nice and sweet in 40 YR Old. Leslie Mann’s character was portrayed as a bitch at first, but ultimately it was shown to be mostly Rudd’s character’s fault
Emma Stone was a smart, clever, and funny (even dorky) character in Superbad. And Mila Kunis was a headstrong/make it on her own character in Forgetting Sarah Marshall. Kristen Bell wasn’t portrayed well at first, but had a good ending (she did cheat, and yes women do that, so it’s understandable to me).
Okay, I adore Freaks and Geeks. The thing I learned was, Freaks and Geeks was more Paul Fieg than Apatow though… Maybe I just can’t get over the mess that was Knocked Up…
I’m just going to ignore that you called Knocked Up a mess…
Though Apatow didn’t creat F&G, I get a strong feeling that he worked incredibly hard on it, more so than Paul Feig, look at the input on the DVD’s from Apatow, then look at what Feig seems to contribute.
Knocked Up was one of the best comedies of the decade, and a lot of women I talked to liked it as well. Leslie Mann and Katherine Heigal were both really funny and believable. As amatter of fact, Forgetting Sarah Marshall was a really good both-gender comedy as well.
I redact my statement from before, lol
Jack- read Paul Fieg’s books- that show was his baby, Apatow was the name that helped get it done.
Mr. Pointy- Catherine Keener’s character made him sell his toys. That scene alone pissed me off.
TNN- I will never believe a woman like Heigl’s character would have kept that baby in the first place, but that aside I also would have respected that comedy more if, in the end, they didn’t feel the need to couple her and Rogen up.
No, I haven’t seen Sarah Marshall yet, but I will. I like Jason Segal enough to do that. There’s just something about Apatow that rubs me the wrong way, that just makes me glare-y.
He also seems to adore the “effortlessly hot” girl who is always hot, always perfect but never puts any effort into it so she is still all the great hottiness but none of the maintenance…
I’ve read in a lot of articles about Knocked Up that the film is esstianally (besides the surprise pregnancy) the story of Judd Apatow’s courtship with Leslie Mann, so I guess all cracks at the movie’s “unrealstic” paring of a cute blonde girl with a schlubby dork should end there. And as for the “effortlessly hot girl”…I haven’t seen her. Cathrine Keener’s charecter in 40-Year-Old Virgin was amazingly down-to-earth and Leslie Mann’s charecter in Knocked Up is a dead-on portrait of a modern 30-something mom struggling to let go of her youth.
You really should check out Forgetting Sarah Marshall, I think its one of the best romantic comedies made in a long time.
TNN- It had nothing to do with looks. They just were not very compatible people in my opinion.
I was just also hoping that the moral of the movie could’ve been- you don’t have to be a couple in order to affectively parent a child. Rogen’s character could’ve stepped up, accepted his responsibility, grown up… but not have had to have been in a relationship with her.
At the moment people having babies and getting married is all anyone I know is doing right now, so movies about this subject ruffle me a bit more than they really should.
*Shrug* We’ll have to agree to disagree then. As for “effortless perfection/hot” it is a lengthy discussion for another day and topic though.
Im in his target audience, but iv been finding his movies extreamly so-so for some reasons… I loved freaks and geeks and afew of the other movies, but I’v been finding his work over-rated.
Has anybody else noticed that all of his initial posters are just lose ups of the main characters looking stupid? thats always botherd me for some stupid reason.
If I’m remembering correctly (and it’s been awhile since I’ve seen it), but Carrell’s character gave up his toys voluntarily.
He wanted to grow up.
Definitely, I Love You Man (as mentioned on the epi) was definitely a bromance. If you have a best friend, and are male, you should love it.
But I think women should like this one, more than maybe the other Apatow movies. And if you (ladies) have a guy (husband/boyfriend/lover, hehe) then you should see it to understand how we think.
Go into like an undercover agent.
And enjoy.
PS
Neal Pert is the best drummer EVER.
Ben, I too was a great fan of Clone High, I think it was hysterical, so much so that Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs has now become one of my most anticipated films of the year.
@Rusty
We get it, you like to argue with people.
Okay, I’ve now seen the Where the Wild Things Are trailer and it is now my most anticipated movie of 2009. Period.