GeekiN Episode #73: 06/02/08
Monday, June 2nd, 2008
Another week, another episode. Been a while since we’ve been able to say that. This week, we make a big revelation on our upcoming live call-in shows. Make sure you give it a listen, and send us your opinion, or comment in this post. Also, we talked about the lost finale, A Song of Ice and Fire, Neil Gaiman on Doctor Who, The Happening, The Incredible Hulk, and more! Just so you have a list, here is is the current topics being considered for the call-in show topics: Lost, Heroes, Movies of the future, Television Report Card, This Generation of Consoles, Xbox 360, and Podcasting.
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Tagged under: A Song of Ice and Fire, Doctor Who, GeekiN, GeekiNtertainment, Geekshow, Incredible Hulk, Neil Gaiman, podcast, The Happening
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Book of the Month
Y The Last Man Vol. 5In this final Deluxe Edition hardcover collecting Y #49-60, Yorick and Agent 355 prepare for their ultimate quest to reunite the last man with his lost love, while the person, people or thing behind the disaster that wiped out half of humanity is revealed. Then, Yorick Brown's long journey through an Earth populated only by women comes to its dramatic, unexpected conclusion.
I tried to read the first book in A Song of Ice and Fire and I think I’ve realized that the fantasy genre just isn’t for me. I couldn’t get into it. I’m fine with fantasy in film, but in fiction, it just can’t hold my interest.
Well, as I’ve said, the first book is completely different then the rest of the series. I think you’d be fine if you could get through that. But unfortunately, you still got to get through it if it isn’t your thing, which is a bit hard to do if you don’t enjoy it. :)
I vote for the comic to movie discussion for the live show. I stopped watching Lost after the first season.
Yeah it’s kind of like Babylon 5’s first season. Everyone tells me get so much better after that first season, but to me, that’s just not worth it. I don’t have much free time as it is, so I just can’t bring myself to force through something I’m not enjoying just for the off chance I may enjoy it later.
So I’ll be sitting this one out.
I love Rear Window, it’s my favorite Hitchcock movie. I’d suggest The Man Who Knew Too Much (Doris Day/Jimmy Stewart version).
As far as topics, either Lost or Buffy Season 8. The TV report card episode is a really great idea too. Although I like reality TV more than most here probably do. And a Heroes show would be great.
I’d like to suggest some episodes just about movies, favorites, least favorites, favorite directors etc.
graet episode guys, loved the intro, very funny
Concerning Babylon 5. Thiers no need to watch the first season to enjoy the show. Second is a good starting point, or if you wish just to try a sample. Watch B5 movie Thirdspace or In the Beginning. And if you wanted to try an episode watch Point of No Return they would be my best choices. if they dont grab you then I wouldnt bother with the rest :)
The same can be said about a majority of Buffy’s first season too, Scott. So I know you know it can be totally worth it. Though if you’re like me, you probably didn’t start on season 1 of Buffy, so that wasn’t an issue. Still.
Damien, I disagree about not needing to watch the first season. Some important stuff happen during the season. And the series is one of the biggest cases of a continuing story arc I’ve ever seen. I’m also not sure I agree with the “If the movies don’t grab you, don’t bother…” line of thought. I like most of the movies, but I still like a majority of the series better.
Thanks for the suggestion of another topic, Pointy. I really think this could become a once a month kind of thing. So hopefully we’ll get several suggestions. If we don’t do them now, hopefully we can do them later.
Here is one question, who thinks they could make an 8pm Monday start?
What a coincidence! I just started reading A Song of Ice and Fire as well! :D
I finished the first book fairly quickly and loved every page. Despite a little bit of a slow start, the story picks up, and I didn’t feel like I was just getting through it to get to the second book at all. I completely see why you say that the “favorite” characters get screwed over. I think that has happened to just about every character that I’ve liked so far. I think the thing I like the most so far is that every character feels distinct and alive. I actually had a hard time coming up with a favorite character myself because they are all very well written, and I even enjoyed reading about the “bad guys”, especially Tyrion Lannister.
I am now 3/4 of the way through the second book, and I am still loving it. I can see why you say the first book is different from the others now, but I wouldn’t say the second book has been completely different from the first. It still keeps the same type of structure of focusing on a different character each chapter, and the style of writing is still the same. I think the main difference is that most of the first book happens when the kingdom is still fairly stable, until a couple things happen that throw it into chaos.
I’ll probably finish the the second book in the next couple days, and I’ll move on to the next one. :D
Saberj, I understand your postion. But due to Australian Broadcasting B5 was on very late at night or early morning. Between 11pm and 1am. So watching it was hard enough. It wasn’t untill half way thru season 2 that it really got into regular broadcasting time of 10pm. Didn’t see 1st season complete until it was released on DVD. Also they would show episodes out of order as well. So i was still able to follow the storyline without so much of a problem.
Also Scott mentioned B5 on Couch Surfing awhile back and asked, that anyfans of show would recommend a random episode for him to watch that might grab his interest. This is what I have done. The two movies mention and the episode are I what feel are good points to introduce someone to the show. Good story and writing are his bread and butter. So thats why I choose those latching on points. There not heavly involved with the main arch except for the episode I mentioned. Also I just thought of another one that might be good is B5:The Lost Tales, it was just realsed so it shoule be easy to find.
Hopefully this explains my point of veiw. Not what was stated earlier.
I do have to one question for you Saberj how would you go about recommending a show to someone who has said many times that it doesn’t hold much interest for them. Ask them to watch clearly unteresting parts of the show or choose what you think is what the best the show can be, and give that to them as a taste of the adventures to come.
Have fun everybody :)
Randy, I think that Buffy’s first season is still better than almost anything that was on TV then or since. I don’t share a lot of people’s problems with that first season. I though it was fine. Not to mention the fact that it’s only a half season and so it isn’t even much of a commitment. But I’ve never talked to any B5 fan that didn’t think the first season was anything but dry and drawn out (those are the nicest of the complaints, most have just said that it sucks). Add to that the fact that I don’t like JMS ANYWAY… I have no interest in taking the time to watch something I probably will not like.
Damien, I appreciate the suggestion. If I can find a way to watch the episode you recommended I will. Thanks!
Warning: This post just kept getting longer and longer as I wrote it, but I hope you read it if you are interested in the Babylon 5 discussion. The first section is about why I think the first season of B5 isn’t as good quality wise as the rest of the show. The second section expands upon it a bit by going into why I think the second season is a viable starting point for the show (that’s how I experienced the show the first time around).
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The first season of B5 has quite a bit of plot developments that show up later on in the series. However, I didn’t get to see the first season when B5 was on TV because the stations where I was didn’t carry it until the 2nd season. I was able to jump right in and follow the story pretty well. I have seen B5 in its entirety several times now thanks to cable reruns in college and DVD.
The first season suffers from the show trying to find its feet. There are some good episodes in there, but overall the season doesn’t “gel” as well as the rest. The actors were trying to find their characters, and the show was trying to find itself stylistically a bit. The characters of Garibaldi, Londo, and G’Kar are probably the best parts of the first season, but their characters get much better in the subsequent seasons. Commander Sinclair is very dry, and I think there is a reason he leaves the show after the first season. He shows up later in the series a couple of times, and he is much better there in limited doses.
When Bruce Boxleitner joined the cast in the 2nd season, I think the show found some energy and a glue to hold it together. His character (Capt. Sheridan) is much more charismatic and likable than Sinclair could ever hope to be. I think that Sheridan is not only the figure that the characters on the show rally around, but I think he is also a good hook for the audience that pulls them into the show. Sheridan is the hero character that everybody wants to cheer for. There are certainly a ton of other characters that make the show great as well, but I think Sheridan is the lynch-pin that holds them together.
Another thing about the first season is that it is very episodic, at least on the surface. Sure there are some things that happen that come back into the story later, but they don’t seem very important at the time. There are a lot more “monster of the week” type episodes in the first season than in later years. The second season still has a healthy amount of standalone episodes, but by the time the third season comes around, the show is a lot more like Buffy in its layout with most of the episodes contributing to the overall arc interspersed with a couple quality standalones in the middle.
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The episode that Damien mentions is from the third season (arguably the best overall year) and is a very pivotal episode. If you are just looking for a great episode to get a sample of the show at its best, then Point of No Return is a pretty good choice. To that end, I would also recommend The Coming of Shadows (2nd season) as an alternative if you want something from earlier in the series. These are good places to go if you don’t care about spoiling major plot points.
If you would rather start somewhere and allow the story play out a bit, I would say you can jump into the second season with few problems story wise. One of the major characters is kind of reinvented between seasons, and are a much different character from the 2nd season on than they were in the first season. Another major character from the first season is replaced by a much better character. Most of all, you won’t be so far into the story that you get really lost with what is going on. One of the major arcs really begins to take shape early on in the 2nd season (even though seeds were planted in the 1st), so I think it is a pretty good place to start.
It is kind of like starting with the second season of Buffy in that you probably won’t be lost, and what you missed in the first season isn’t a super huge deal. The difference is that the first season of Buffy has some great episodes that are contenders for people’s favorites. I doubt that any of the episodes from Babylon 5’s first season are on anyone’s top ten episode list from the series. Most of my favorite episodes come from the 3rd and 4th year, with a couple from the 2nd and 5th.
I would NOT start with Lost Tales. It may be easier to find, but it is not a good representation of the series. Lost Tales was done so long after the original show that it just doesn’t have the same feel to it, due in part to the limited scope of the story (only involving a couple characters from the show). It is not a good place to start if you haven’t seen the show before.
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As you can tell, I am a big fan of B5. I started with the second season, and I did fine. There are two thing that I love about the show. It has some of the best characters to ever grace the television screen, who evolve and change as the series progresses. Additionally, the show has an epic story arc with some great twists and turns. Even though the show is starting to show its age, it is still a great story that is well worth checking out.
I love Hitchcock. I highly reccomend “Notorious” – my all time favorite. Cary Grant, Ingrid Bergman, Claude Raines… From IMDB:
“Following the conviction of her German father for treason against the U.S., Alicia Huberman takes to drink and men. She is approached by a government agent (T.R. Devlin) who asks her to spy on a group of her father’s Nazi friends operating out of Rio de Janeiro. A romance develops between Alicia and Devlin, but she starts to get too involved in her work.”
^^It’s all about the coffee cup scene. :)
I actually don’t think the problems with B5’s first season involve being dry and drawn out. My complaints are that it just didn’t work at that point. Its sort of a problem when you are looking at the bigger picture. You are working on getting to a certain point, and it suffers a bit from that.
Honestly, I didn’t get in on B5 via the first season either. I came in later and then went back to the first season. And that’s a valid way of getting into the series. But I don’t think that completely skipping the first season is the way to go. While it isn’t going to be winning any awards, it has some very important story material in it.
Likewise, I think that Buffy’s season 1 is VERY similar to B5’s. It isn’t bad, it just doesn’t have it’s feet just yet. Things still felt a bit too “monster of the day”-ish. While B5 never had a case of being too episodic, it still didn’t have its identity in that first season. In both cases, whether or not you like the first seasons, I just don’t think they reflect the whole of the show.
Damien: Concerning getting someone to watch a show that can’t hold their interest? Well, I usually just let it go at that. I’ve discovered if you try to convince someone they will like a show, then they will find problems with it out of spite. But if you are going to try to convince them, I don’t think there is really a good way to do it. Shows with continuity rarely work when you just pick out an episode and try to show it that way. I’ve tried it with B5, Buffy, and I’ve heard of people doing with with Lost as well. I’m not sure there is a right way to do it. But, kudos to you for giving it a try. My problem wasn’t really that you wanted him to “try the show”, but that you said “There is no need to watch the first season to enjoy the show”, which I think indicates that they should never watch it. It doesn’t need great episodes to be a wonderful part of the story.
Moving on to Polygon’s comments on A Song of Ice and Fire:
I didn’t mean to imply that the first and second books of the series completely change. They definitely still have the same writing style. So if that is what bothered Scott, I apologize at implying that it changes. What does change, which I believe you totally got was the direction and scope of the story. It goes from being this optimistic story of knights, kings, and damsels to being complete chaos, and brilliant webs of story and characters.
BTW, Polygon, I know I’ve said that you shouldn’t become too attached to the good characters, but the same is true for the “bad guys”. Don’t attach yourself to hating them too much. Some will stay bad, for sure. But a few of them won’t seem nearly as bad once you see their point of view, and hear their side of the story. In a lot of ways, that’s what makes the book series so beautiful is its character complexity. They are living, breathing people. All with different personalities.
BTW, don’t feel too bad for like Tyrion, he becomes just about everyone’s favorite character. I believe I like Tyrion and Arya the best. But I have a lot of characters I love in different ways. I even love to hate a few of the characters. Kind of like Ben from Lost. Sometimes you just love a bad guy completely.
I am also about 3/4 of the way through the 2nd book and I think they’re great. Although I have to agree with Wayne about them being pretty graphic with the sex scenes. Expecially the stuff with Danny.
Right now my favorite characters are Jon Snow, Arya, and Tyrion. Of course by the way these books twist and turn I may end up totally changing those choices by the end.
As far as B5 goes I haven’t seen any of it either and have th thought about watching many times, but like Scott I have been pushed away by everyone telling me how bad the first seson is. Personally I feel a need to watch everything from the begining and even if everyone told me the first season didn’t matter I would still have to watch it. So I understand where Scott’s coming from with not being sure whether he wants to make that kind of commitment.
My choices for the live shows would be Buffy season 8, Xbox 360, Heroes, and Movies of the future.
Saberj, I can see how that sentence could be seen in that light. So my bad for not explaining it right. :) I didn’t mean that it should be avoided at all costs :)
On futher reflection Polygon_Wizard is right Lost Tales might not be a good starting point for the show. But I did put it in the list because the I think the writing was really good epecially in the first half.
Back to Song of Ice and Fire….
I definitely put “bad guys” in quotes for a reason. I completely agree with SaberJ’s comments on character complexity. I love the fact that we get to see things through the eyes of several different characters, and I love that every character is completely unique.
I don’t feel bad about liking Tyrion at all. I think he is a fascinating character. He has to fight using his wits and cunning due to his physical limitations. He does a lot of things that could be considered evil, but his motivations for doing so are pretty understandable.
And back to B5….
I wouldn’t suggest completely skipping the first season of B5 either, but I think it’s perfectly okay to go back and watch it after seeing the later seasons. I think you even get more out of it that way, knowing how everything ties into future events. At the very least, you could read a synopsis of the season online to understand the major plot points that relate to later seasons. I don’t think that’s the best way to go, but it’d be better than nothing.
I’m glad to hear you are enjoying it so much, Polygon. If I manage to introduce a few new people to the wonders of the series, then I feel like I’ve done my job. Its not going to be for everyone, and that’s ok.
For Scott’s sake, I hope HBO follows through on their plans to make a series of the book. They would do a fantastic job with it, IMO. And its a lot less of a commitment to watch the series than try to read the series. Afterall, that’s how I ended up “into” Harry Potter. The movies were a Gateway drug for me.
Yeah, I hope they make it into a series as well. It would be very difficult to do it justice with a movie. There are just so many characters and different points of view that it would be a difficult task to pull off. As a series, you could take a cue from the book and have each episode focus on one character’s point of view.
That said, I would love to see The Wall on a giant theater screen. A giant wall of ice just wouldn’t seem as epic and huge on TV.
There is a particular battle I would love to see on the big screen as well. But ultimately, it would take like 20 years of movies to do the series justice. Each book would have to be at least 2 movies long. I don’t think it would ever work. So a TV series just sounds like a winner. Last I heard, it was competing with a King Arthur series for a spot on the HB lineup.
George RR Martin was supposedly even going to work on the series a bit, as he has television writing experience.
The person in the coffin is a guy? Wayne used the term “old dude”.
If you are far enough to know there is a coffin, you should know its a guy (The word “him” was used several times when it was first introduced to the show). If you aren’t far enough to know about the coffin, it doesn’t matter either way.
Assuming that’s what you are getting at. Either way, yeah, its “old dude” :)
I watched Lost, was not spolied, my comment was jibba-jabba.
movies and buffy!!
My $.02 re: the call in show topics: I liked them all, but mostly want to hear the podcasting one. Keep up the good work guys!
Whatever the call in show topic is- give me the number and I will so ‘call in’- regardless. Just so I have the pleasure. :)
Glad to hear that so many people are interested in this idea. I’m relying on you guys to make this a success. The topics and instructions on how to participate will be given out on Monday’s episode of the podcast. If for whatever reason we end up not being able to record this Monday, then I will post the information you guys need on the site.