Angel Investigations Season 5: 3 of 3 – 01/23/08
Thursday, January 24th, 2008
After many emails and death threats, we return with the conclusion to the Angel Investigations Podcast. We cover episodes 14 through 22 in a sad conclusion to the whole series. There was so much to talk about that show went on for almost 4 hours. We hope you enjoy this final episode as much as we loved recording them all. Maybe we didn’t want it to end that that’s why 8 months went by waiting for this one to be released.
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Great to see the podcast back. :) Can’t wait to listen.
Part 2 doesn’t seem to be on iTunes though. It probably will be before this is posted hehe.
I only discovered you guys recently and have worked my way through all of the Buffycast and am currently listening to Angel Investigations, I’ve just started the second last podcast for Angel and was fretting that there didn’t appear to be a final podcast – what was I going to do??? So thanks for finding the time to do this – I have really enjoyed re-visiting some of the best TV moments ever with you both and have enjoyed your lighthearted analysis of both series.
Uh yeah, I could have told Wayne that iTunes would only recognize one of those files. But I was under the impression he was going to put them together to begin with :)
I’m going to try and get him to fix that ASAP :)
Also, thanks for the comments, Annie. Thank God you haven’t had to wait the entire time for this episode like some of the people on here have. We got a bit sidetracked getting this last episode out.
BTW, you guys see the running time? It was like 4 hours….
I can’t wait to listen to this episode! :D
I am so exited… I only just found out about you guys a couple of months ago and since then I have listened to all of the Buffcast and now I am working on Angel Investigation… this is one of the best podcasts I haver ever listened to… (that could be the geek in me talking) I cant wait work my way up to season 5 of Angel!!!!! I have to say that I love how open you guys are about saying that you cry during some of the episodes <3 !!!! Well, ill keep listening… and posting…. a lot!!!!!
KEEP IT UP!!!!!!
-Emily
Like Annie, I’ve only recently discovered you guys too, AND I’ve only recently actually WATCHED the whole series of Angel! (I came very late to Buffy too.) I watched the entire seasons 3-5 in only 2 weeks – and I’m a single mum!! That’s how hooked I was… Anyway I am just starting to listen to ep 2 of your season 5 podcasts so it’s great to see ep3 already waiting for me!
Anyway I wanted to post to say what a lovely oasis of peace your podcasts are, i sit on the train glancing at headlines in the Metro (our free daily paper here in London) and the contrast between the “harsh, cruel world” out there and the enthusiasm and respect in your podcasts is striking! I love how respectful you are towards all the characters and how you relate back all those funny moments, it helps ease the grief of having just watched my last joss whedon episode (new that is, i will be re watching the whole lot before long!!)
so,thank you…
Thanks so much for getting it out guys!! I can’t wait to hear it! Are you going to do an awards show for Angel like you did Buffy?
Glad to see some new faces around the old club. I hope everyone enjoys it. Let me know what you think as you finished. I can forgive you for taking a while to finish it, given its 4 hour running time :)
Probably not in that exact fashion, Benji. We may post some web entries on our favorites and such. The Buffy Awards were far too difficult to pull off. Besides, we haven’t done any voting or anything that would need to be done. But definitely look forward to some comic episodes when those get far enough along to do.
Major thanks go to Randy for splicing the episode together into one piece. My Mac Mini was being difficult and kept crashing when working with 2 files that were pretty large. I was hoping to get the issue figured out and Randy came to the rescue. Glad to see the new faces and I hope you all enjoy!
Oh ok I understand. Thanks a lot for responding to me though! I’m not used to that sorta thing.haha But I really enjoy listening the Buffy/Angel podcasts. I’m still getting through them all for the 1st time. I’m listening to Angel Season 3 part 1 right now. And I’m recomending your Buffy and Angel Podcasts to some other people I know on imdb who like the show.
With as awesome as the Buffy and Angel podcasts are, and you guys have made some Star Trek references before, especially while reviewing season 2 of Angel talking about Lorne being a Klingon.haha I’m a big trekkie, and I’d love to see you guys do season review podcasts of the Star Trek series, or something like Hercules or Xena. I think people who get into Buffy and Angel usually like stuff like that as well.
Anyway thanks again so much for getting that last part of Season 5 out!
Hey Guys – just got to the part in the podcast where you mention Illyria visiting a dimension containing nothing but shrimp – this is a reference to Anya talking about a world with no shrimp, or containing nothing but shrimp… nice throwback to Buffy I think.
thankyou thankyou thankyou. saw it downloading on itunes and squealed.
thank you guys so much.. I just spent so many hours getting to the end of Angel Investigations!!!!! amazing job…. (I also noticed the Illyria and the shrimp world :) ) I love all of your insights and comments on the episodes!!!! It is so cool to know that other people are as in to Buffy and Angel as I am!!!! well I gtg… but ill be back!!!!
Thank you guys I can’t believe it’s finally here. I’m off to go listen to it now
Hey guys. I’m glad you finally got the last episode out. I’ve been waiting for a long time. I want to put your mind at ease about the fate of the crew after season five. I’ve read the first two issues of the comic and EVERYONE survives, including the dragon that Angel wanted to slay. There’s a funny story behind that. Like I said, they all survive BUT their roles have changed a LOT, mainly Gunn. If you can’t find the comics and want a rundown of what happened after season five then shoot me an email. Good job again guys.
aw crap. I mispelled my name on my last post. It’s “Douceswild”.
I found the comics the day after recording. I’m not sure at this point weather I like the direction they are going or not. I knew wes wasn’t done since he has a contract with W & H and Holland Manners and Lilah both made clear that the contracts extend past death.
Thanks for all the great comments guys. Glad to see everyone is enjoying the show. I totally forgot about Anya’s shrimp world, thanks for the reminder and heads up on that. It makes me wonder how many inside jokes we (The collective audience we; not the me and Wayne we) miss when we go through these shows. I imagine not every joke or reference comes across perfectly.
Glad to see so many people are finding the episode ok. I was a bit worried that since it had been so long, that people’s iTunes feeds would’ve started ignoring the feed and they may not see that the new episode is up. If you guys know anyone else that listens, be sure to spread the word that we finally got this episode out.
I listened to the whole episode yesterday. It is so great to have the final episode of Angel on my ipod. I loved it! I too was so devastated when Fred died, but I love Illyria as well. Amy Acker is an awesome actress. She doesn’t always play the same role.
I’m also not sure I’m liking the Angel comics yet either. I’ll keep reading of course, but I’m not as excited about them as I am about Buffy season 8.
I didnt like the buffy comics, i read the long way home trade, but i think ill keep reading just cuz its buffy. dont think ill buy it unless it improves though…
xxangelangelus,
Brian K. Vaughan’s “Faith” arc for Buffy: Season Eight is actually quite good. It’s maybe even better than Whedon’s initial first issues. So, yeah, I’d say they’ve definitely improved. Personally, I’m not a big fan of the art and coloring, and I miss Cliff Richards, who was the common artist for the first batch of Buffy comics back in the day. The good news is, he comes back to do pencils for a recent issue, so I’m happy. :)
I finally made it all the way through this episodes after several sittings. It was nice to finally hear you take on the final few episodes of Angel.
As much as I love the epic finale for Buffy, I think I slightly prefer Angel’s finale. It is still big and crazy, but it also spends a bit more personal time with the characters as well. I love the bit about Spike’s poetry, and I think the Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid cliffhanger ending was absolutely perfect. :D
I’ve just today finished your last Angel episode. I feel :(, i will miss listening to you guys on the way to & from work! Mind you I don’t think I’ve listened to all the Buffy podcasts yet, just seasons 6 & 7. Buffy here i come…
Interesting that you quite liked the end of Angel. Although I don’t necessarily mind the cliffhanger aspect of it (frustrating though it kind of is), I found it rather depressing. I was like, so, the message for this whole series is that there is no point fighting the system, and evil will always prevail? Methinks though i need to get hold of some subsequent comics I guess….
NumberSix, I would have to say that I think you are correct. The end really feels like there is no hope and evil will prevail. How depressing, ugh.
I don’t know, I wouldn’t say it’s depressing. I think the point of the butch cassidy ending is that as long as you fight there’s hope. so, no I don’t find it particularly depressing.
I find tacked on artificial happy ending depressing.
Angel is a show I didn’t watch in it’s original run. When I finally caught up with it I was blow away. Especially by the later seasons, they’re so beautiful and complete. And the plotting is terrific, Wes’ arc from series 3-5 fantastic. The end may or may not be depressing. But it’s perfect.
I don’t understand why people don’t like series 4. I think it’s the best season of Buffy or Angel.
In retrospect I like Angel much more than Buffy. That was an ending that pissed me off.
I’m curious how y’all stand on Angel vs Spike. I know Spike has his fans but in my mind it’s not even close. Angel easily the more complex and dynamic character.
1. Angel was first. We already have an vampire with a soul. Get your own ideas Spike.
2. Spike looked ridiculous in his platnum blond get up. It was cool in season 2 and absolutly embarrassing by season 7. Am I to believe he’s just gonna stick with this look for eternity?
3. Angel was easily the superior villain. Spike wasn’t even the “big bad” for season 2, it was Angelus. Does anyone see Angelus being subdued by some lame ass chip in his head. “Ow, I can’t commit evil, I have a headache. I’m gonna go lie down.” That was seriously lame.
(tangent alert:
Think about this. Angel’s dormant vampire side represented a constant threat that both shows were able to mine for some of their best material. A spell… love… a bad day; any one of those things could open up the flood gates for a world of shit.
But if Spike were to loose his soul, who cares. He voluntarily turned to good. Before he regained his soul evil vampire spike palled around with Buffetts, ran their errands and did their bidding and brought flowers to buffy’s mothers funeral. That’s not an evil entity to be feared, that’s a grade A pussy.
)
Angelus was a major evil presence. Spike was comic relief. And it therefore directly follows that…
4. Angel is the superior hero. He’s driven by the desire to atone for his evil, to seek redemption. Spike’s just copying Angel in the hope that some girl will like him. Spike turned to good because the evil thing wasn’t working out so well. He is to do-gooding what The Graduate is to plastics.
5. Angel and Buffy are classic archtypal star crossed lovers. Spike and Buffy are a lame plot contrivance cooked up by a show that never recovered from Angels departure.
Discuss…
I haven’t got enough time to think too much about what I’m typing but very quickly, my response to both of your replies -
In spite of what i said, I totally agree with you about tacked on “happy endings”. The indiana jones type episode where Angel ends up with Cordy then discovers it was just his soul being taken away was a case in point – i was watching it going, wtf? i knew something wasn’t right, and although it was gratifying watching he & cordy getting it on, i was thinking, this can’t be happening! (aside from the fact that he was bound to turn to angelus). So when he woke up in the cage I was like, PHEW thank god for that, everything’s still f*d up! I wouldn’t necessarily have wanted Angel to end with complete victory/happy ending (in fact that wouldn’t have matched the message of the show either), I just found it depressing that’s all.
I also agree that Angel is the superior hero but I wouldn’t be as disparaging about Spike as you are! It’s funny because when I had only seen Buffy I much preferred spike, it seemed he was the more rounded of the two of them, angel was far too brooding for me, simple romantic, & I only liked him as Angelus. But in Angel I fell for him hook, line & sinker and my heart just breaks for him & his situation – Spike pales in comparison. Comic relief, certainly. and i like a bad boy… but still, it’s a real hero we really want! You are also TOTALLY spot on with what you say about Angelus lying dormant, versus evil spike.
However, re Spike getting a soul/evolving/chip whatever – at first I was like, oh no here we go again, but in fact I think they did it very well in that spike is entirely different to Angel (you’ve basically said that yourself). So no, it didn’t bother me in that way that spike got a soul. i’ve said somewhere else on the boards that just because a vampire gains a soul doesn’t mean he gains a conscious or becomes a good person- there are plenty of screwed up human beings out there!
Plus, re Buffy & Spike together, i hate to say this but I actually loved season 6 and i think it was (disturbingly) because I could relate to Buffy. They didn’t get together because they were really in love with each other (the way Angel & Buffy were)- Spike’s was his usual unhealthy obsession, hers was because she had gone to a dark lonely place and couldn’t handle it. spike was the person who could most understand that.
when i have more time i’ll think some more re read this & probably change my mind… :D
I like both Spike and Angel by themselves. They are both good characters with lots of reasons you would like to watch either one of them. However, I absolutely love when they are together on-screen. The interactions between Spike and Angel are almost always priceless, whether it’s season 2 of Buffy, season 5 of Angel, or the random times in between.
Number6, I don’t hate Spike. I just got carried away with myself. I think I’m one of the few people who the series Angel to Buffy. Joss Whedon is okay as a writer but I think his real talent is for sheperding and mentoring young writers.
Am I only one who thinks Series 4 of Angel is awesome?
i’m with wayne & randy on season 4 – i like the first few episodes but for me it goes downhill from the cordy & connor thing. I think the complex issue about “is creating a perfect happy world evil or not” is an interesting concept but it could have been done so much better. It was “awesome” in the sense that I couldn’t stop watching like I couldn’t stop watching season 3 (i loved season 3) but i was watching more in fascinated horror than actual enjoyment!
I’m not sure whether I prefer the series Angel or Buffy. When I was watching seasons 1 & 2 of Angel I was feeling slightly disappointed, thinking Buffy was much better, but when I was watching season 3 of Angel, I was like, this is more like it! But then where it went after season 4 spoilt it for me. I think as a whole I prefer Buffy. I just love Angel the character & his issues a lot more than anyone in Buffy, and it felt more adult & complex, and I like the darkness. (Hence liking season 6 of Buffy – did you like season 6 of Buffy Rusty? I know lots of people don’t.
Agree with polygon – spike & angel together are great! And I loved Adam Baldwin as the liaison! I wish there had been more time at Wolfram & Hart, I generally didn’t really get on with season 5 & that whole thing much, but if it had played out better, if there had been more covert stuff going on by the angel gang to try & bring W&H down or something, or a longer period of time wondering if Angel was turning bad, I might have enjoyed it more. Perhaps it all ended prematurely, or the end happened all too quickly. Didn’t get to kow Illyria well enough. I missed Cordy too actually. Coulda done with another season. Whereas I think Buffy ended when it needed to.
You know, I do like Buffy 6 all things considered. I just gave up on Buffy after series 3. For several reasons the most prominent of which is named Sara Michelle Gellar. She really degenerated into a hopeless actress. I look back on season 1-3 and it just makes me sad.
Series 6 may be my favorite of the later seasons.
i have to say, I kind of agree with you there, she’s really not the best thing about Buffy the series! But I like her character development/issues etc, in spite of she herself, you know, the stories etc, and I like Buffy the character (apart from later on in preachy mode), so it’s all good…..
Hey guys~
Love the podcast, I’ve been listening since episode one of the Buffycast and have yet to be disappointed. Question for you – my podcast cut off at 3 hrs, 19 mins, 50 seconds (right after the Lindsey’s “big brass testies” bit. Is this an isolated problem, or did anyone else experience this?
I love series 4 for it’s crazy plotting and breakneck pace. Wesley coming into his own as a bad-ass. Conner as a villain. Cordeala as a villain. Angel as a villain. Faith’s redemption. A master villain whose goal is not to destroy the world but to save the world.
I’m glad you like series 3 Six. It is great also. But many of the cool parts of 3 come into fruition in 4. And then it just goes balls out.
It seems like the show hit it’s apex but then discovered some crazy new level of awesomeness. I know that the season was influenced by CC’s suprise pregnancy, and I think the forced improvising wound up benefitting the show. Like the old say about necessity being the mother of invention.
Gena Torres is one of the great buffyverse villains. I would put her above the Mayor because she’s scarier.
I wish people would give 4 another look.
Shrimp dimension? I don’t know if you knew what this line was from Illyria. It’s just a quirky running joke with the writers.
Check this site out: http://www.triviaguide.net/
Here is an excerpt:
Shrimp have been a referenced many times in Buffy and Angel: In 5.20 Spiral, Anya says that Xander doesn’t travel well, like fine shrimp; in 3.21 Graduation Day (Part One), Willow finds a spell to “communicate with shrimp”; in 4.17 Superstar, Anya compares a parallel universe with shrimp; and in 5.11 Triangle, Anya mentions a ‘world without shrimp’, to which Tara replies that she’s allergic to them. In the Angel episode 5.17 Underneath, Illyria says she once visited a world populated with nothing but shrimp.
Thanks for finishing!
Jords: When the episode first went up, there was 2 parts to the episode. Later, the file was combined into 1 file. You probably downloaded it on the first day before we got that fixed. I’m not sure how to force iTunes to recognize the newest file. I know if you unsubscribe and then re-subscribe, that will do it. But I’m not sure if you want to go through that, since it will suddenly say you don’t have any of the episodes.
Finally! I’ve waited six months for this. The last couple of months I’ve checked in now and then, but I honestly started to think it was never gonna happen. I hope you follow up in the future with other tv podcasts, be it Veronica Mars, Battlestar Galactica, Doll House or whatever else you like. Cause I’m a tv geek myself. I love listening to detailed discussions of the shows I like, and download the TV Guide podcast every week (not as detailed though). But I started listening to the Buffy and Angel podcasts first. And I think you’re really good at this guys!
Thanks for the final installment. I hadn’t checked back for a couple of months and then when I did, it was there! And it was very good. I’ve listened to all your BuffCasts and AngelCasts and enjoyed them all, but the latest ones are the best. You have gotten better and better at doing them every time. Kudos.
I would like to throw in for your consideration, with all the other requests, that if you’re fans of the new Doctor Who, in-depth reviews of series 1-3 (and later 4) would be fantastic.
Love them all!! Ya’ll crack me up!! Now you should continue with just analyzing episodes further. Maybe take questions or comments from fans for discussion topics. I really like listening to ya’ll. The Buffcast is really great too. I listen to them both. You can do the same for Buffcast too. Just try to keep it going………………………………..
Buffy and Angel best star-cross lover.
no………………………..It over , But maybe sometime we will get a Buffy/angel movie
maybe a spike movie .
I’m so sad this is the last podcast. I also love this season I love how they change Gunn to a lawyer. I think that better suits his character.