Who Owns the Watchmen? 2Oth Century Fox Apparently
Thursday, December 25th, 2008
In true Christmas spirit fashion, a Los Angeles judge announces that 20th Century Fox owns the distribution rights to Watchmen.
Even though a trial is scheduled for late January, Judge Gary A. Frees has already decided that Fox has a claim on the movie. Fox has been seeking to prevent Warner Brothers from releasing the film, citing that they still owned the rights to the graphic novel after acquiring them in the late 1980’s. Directed by Zak Snyder, the movie is scheduled to be released in March.
“Fox owns a copyright interest consisting of, at the very least, the right to distribute the ‘Watchmen’ motion picture,” the ruling said.
In ruling on Wednesday, Judge Feess advised both Fox and Warner to look toward a settlement or an appeal. “The parties may wish to turn their efforts from preparing for trial to negotiating a resolution of this dispute or positioning the case for review,” he said.
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If this has no effect on the movie whatsoever, then I don’t really care who ends up distributing it. If the movie gets dlayed or changed because of this, then that will get me annoyed at the very least.
If it comes out when it its supposed to at a theatre near me, I couldn’t care less which studio logo comes up at the beginning.
I just think the fact that FOX had the rights, and then didn’t do anything with them, and then decide to try and lay claim on a movie made by someone else is bad move.
If you own the rights, you own the rights. Even if you you sit on it forever. That’s the risk in signing away the rights, unfortunately. I’m just curious how something like this becomes an issue. With all the lawyers big Hollywood has on retainer, nobody at Warner Bros. said, “Uh, hey guys? Fox owns he rights to distribute this film”
Well my real problem is that they waited until the movie was almost done before they decided to make an issue of this, that’s seems like they are trying to force the hand of WB.
Guys, this is Hollywood. You ever watch Entourage? People do mean, dishonest things when money’s on the line
I don’t care if it is Hollywood. Just because something is the way it is, doesn’t mean we have to like it or accept it.
I’m not condoning it. it’s a total dick move, but in an industry that consists of a series of dick moves, we can’t exacty grab our torches and pitchforks.
oh jeeze. I really hope this doesn’t kill the movie.
I somehow doubt that they are just now doing something about it. Ever payed attention to our screwed up judicial system? They would have had to wait until there was a movie to dispute, but more than likely, this argument went to court months ago. There is no such thing as a fast resolution with the law system. Just be glad that the judge didn’t put a hold on the movie being released.
@Saberj: Yes but the movie was also done shooting months ago, they have been in post-production for a while now. I’m sure you’re right that if they wanted to sue WB that there would actually have to be a movie to distribute, however they have known that the movie was going to be made for quite a while, and they decided to keep the fact that the own the distribution rights to themselves. FOX is just trying to get a free movie to distribute that they didn’t have to spend any money on.
I’m not sure you realize how serious of a matter this actually is, if WB and FOX sign a deal here, which they probably will. That means that the movie probably isn’t going to be released until the summer, which may not seem like a big deal however that’s not all that could happen. If Tom Rothman gets his hands on this then say goodbye to our 3 hour R-rated movie, instead we’ll have a 2 hour PG13 piece of s#*!. At this point I’m afraid that we may never actually see Zak Snyder’s original cut of the movie.
I doubt they “Kept it to themselves”. Fox had been balking with the movie for a few years now. Lawyers should know that sort of stuff, or be able to figure it out.
I definitely understand how serious the issue is. However, I’ve never said I support what they are doing, or how the law works in this issue. But the law is the law, and that’s about all there is to it.
You don’t have to like it. But again, this is the problem with signing away the rights to a property.
Sigh… nothing bad better happen to this… or I have completely lost faith in ALLAH… well it’ll make the plane rides better anyway… stupid turban…
I remember on an episode of SModcast, Kevin smith said that he’d seen a screener of this and that the movie had been finnished for awhile now, so I doupt they would go back and edit it or change anything at this point either way it goes……well I hope not anyway.
Well isn’t that exactly what you would expect from FOX. I doubt that they would not want to make any changes to a movie that they had their hand in. I mean its not really about what they want to do, more about what they can do.
Well, so far they just have distribution rights. And that’s probably all they will get. They could take it to court to possibly get more. But they would have to risk not getting an injunction to hold up the release, and losing the court battle. They have everything to lose to continue to fight. As it stands, they could just settle out of court, and that’s what I think is most likely.
So they can’t edit anything yet. Hopefully it will stay that way.
I just read on Aint’ It Cool that Fox now wants to halt the films release date. This means war.
Because Warner Bros. won’t negotiate a settlement with them. They believe Fox doesn’t own the rights like they say they do. Big Hollywood at its worst.
Is there a reason you seem to be on the side of FOX here?
Is there a reason that you think I’m on anyone’s side? I’m just calling it like it is. Two big Hollywood studios waving their lawyers around.
If Fox owns the right to the movie, then it doesn’t matter what you, me, or anyone else thinks about it. It is their property to do with it as they will. It’s not going to do you any good to whine and moan about it.
If Fox doesn’t own it, then they are indeed scum for attempting to drag this movie down. But the only reason anyone is ragging on Fox at this point is because they are holding back Watchmen. If Warner Bros was in their position, they would be doing the same exact thing. You can debate it all you want, but it is true.
If anyone here represent Big Hollywood at its wort, its FOX.
You guys are ridiculous in your bias sometimes.
What can I say man? I’m not a big fan of whoever’s not letting me see a cool movie.
I can understand being upset about the situation. But this isn’t Fox’s fault if they legitimately hold the rights to the movie. Like I said…If they don’t own the rights, then we can blame them all we want. But if they do, then it is their property to release it or not release it as they want.
Do you really want them to go in, pay the money for a franchise, only to have them lose out in the end? It’s retarded for them to get a property and then never do anything with it. But it’s going to be equally retarded for nobody to be willing to take a chance on getting the rights for a property because someone else can just come in and grab them while they still own them.
Again, I’m not making a judgment call here, I’m just calling it as it is from the information we have. /IF/ Fox owns the rights, then they /SHOULD/ go after WB in this case. Because it is their property.
If Fox doesn’t own the rights, then they should be held in contempt of court, and have to pay any money this costs The WB. That includes, court costs, and that includes money that the movie will lose out on.
Ultimately, we the fans will lose out in this situation. We may get a delayed movie, and in the worst case, we may even get an edited movie. Meanwhile, the movie itself will probably benefit from from the free publicity it gets from the situation. So it’s really a win/win situation for whoever comes out of court with the movie rights. And that is disappointing. But still, it’s the law. That’s how it works.
Randy you are exactly right if WB were in this position we would be bad mouthing them, but its FOX that is doing it this time. I’m not hating on them because they are FOX, its because in this situation they are being scumbags.
Even if the own the rights to distribute the movie doesn’t mean they should be able to do whatever they want with them. They bought them in the 80’s and are just letting them sit around. The obviously don’t own the rights to make the movie, just distribute it. But they’ve decided to try and ruin a movie they had no part in making. They are definitely the villain in this situation.
They have waited until the movie is almost ready to come out to sue WB, just to ruin the release of the film. Of course WB is refusing to settle, its there movie, and they wouldn’t have made if they didn’t think they owned it. If it turns out that FOX does own distribution, then why didn’t they say anything 2 years ago?
“If Fox owns the right to the movie, then it doesn’t matter what you, me, or anyone else thinks about it. It is their property to do with it as they will. It’s not going to do you any good to whine and moan about it.”
Isn’t that what we do here, whine and moan about Hollywood?
Actually, that’s EXACTLY what owning the rights to the movie gives them the right to do. When you have the rights, you have every right to sit on them until they aren’t worth a penny, unless the contract prohibits you from doing that.
And don’t be so quick to assume they only have the rights to distribute the movie. The quote exact quote was, “Fox owns a copyright interest consisting of, at the very least, the right to distribute the ‘Watchmen’ motion picture.” Notice that “at the very least” part of the quote.
In this case, the judge ruled that they owned the distribution rights, and that Warner Bros should either appeal the ruling, or they should settle. If they settled, then Fox would likely get Distribution rights, and Warner Bros would maintain the other rights. Warner Bros is going to appeal the ruling, and take the issue to court. As a result, if Fox did not file an injunction, then the Court case would take longer to solve than the time left before the movie is released. Thus, Fox is going to file an injunction to hold the movie back until the issue can be settled.
You said “They have waited until the movie is almost ready to come out to sue WB”. I have no idea when this lawsuit happened, but I can guarantee you that it wasn’t in the last couple weeks. Court cases take time before they even come up. I’ve heard of them taking up to a year in some cases. So we don’t know whether they held off or not. The fact is, we just don’t have the full story. Also, you said, they held off… “just to ruin the release of the film.” As I said before, even if the movie is held off, it is quite likely that this case will boost the performance of the movie because of the talk that it will get. So I don’t think that they would spend money just to help WB make extra money (Or possibly lose some money).
You also said, “Of course WB is refusing to settle, its there movie, and they wouldn’t have made if they didn’t think they owned it.” Do you not think that the same is true for Fox? If they didn’t think they owned the rights, then they really have nothing to gain from this situation. It’s all about money for these companies, believe it or not. Why didn’t they do anything about it 2 years ago? No idea. Court cases have to be built, the case has to be filed, the judge has to read the case, etc. We have no idea how long they’ve been working on the case.
Unfortunately, it’s not about Hollywood in this case. It’s about the law system. It’s slow, and it’s screwed up. But there is one thing to be said here. If Fox is as full of hot air as you say they are, then the injunction won’t go through. But if they have a legitimate case, then we may be waiting for a while. And there is going to be plenty of blame to go around. But it is absolutely not all going to Fox.
No Ben, we “passionately discuss.”
If its so cut and dry that FOX owns the rights then what case are the building. If they own them, then all they have to do is pull out the paper work and say, “Here it is.” Case closed.
The court case WAS filed months ago, there were stories about it back then. Its just that now there is actual news about it. The movie has been done shooting for quite a while, but they didn’t sue WB until the movie was already in production. Don’t you think that if FOX had brought this to their attention in the beginning they probably wouldn’t have gone ahead and made the movie until the legal dispute was cleared away. I mean why invest in a movie that they could potentially lose?
No one is being helped out by this court case, FOX is trying to stop the movie from being released at all. My question is why, it doesn’t cost them anything for the movie to be released. If this movie does come out, I really doubt that WB will look back at all this as a good thing.
I understand the letter of the law here Randy, but that doesn’t mean we have to agree on it. FOX may well be within their legal rights here, but that doesn’t make it right. Just because something is legal doesn’t make it the right answer. Laws aren’t about what is right anymore. I was only asking why you seemed to be defending FOX when they seem to be in the wrong, even if not in a legal sense.
I may not have the whole story, but I can only make my opinion from what I have. If I were Jim Gianopoulos I would know the whole story, but I’m not. But from what has been released, to me at least it seems like FOX is in the wrong.
In August, I saw that it was filed “Earlier this year”. August was 4 months ago. Earlier this year sounds like at least another couple months, if not longer. It doesn’t seem unreasonable that it would take at least a few months to make sure the movie is going to get made, and then assemble their case. A court case isn’t as simple as making your intentions known, and then showing up for the trial. You have to assemble the documents (From both Fox’s and Warner’s side, likely). You have to get witnesses, etc. Court cases are rarely ever as simple as showing up with a piece of paper in your hand, even if it is cut and dry. Which I’m absolutely not saying it is.
From what I’ve seen, Fox is /NOT/ trying to stop the movie from being released. I am almost 100% positive that with distribution rights alone, they can’t hold someone else from releasing a movie that they make. Distribution rights usually mean that they have the right to distribute the movie, not that they can prevent other people from doing it, if they pass on it.
I’m also pretty certain that distributors get a good portion of money when they distribute a film. Otherwise, why would anyone ever do it besides the person that made the film?
Fox is within their legal rights, and it DOES make it right. It’s their movie to distribute if they want it and they own the rights to distribute it. The law doesn’t equate with “being right”, but in this case, I think it does. If someone owns the rights to a property, then they deserve to be able to use those rights.
If they don’t own the rights, or if they are trying to use pure distribution rights to keep the movie from ever being released, then yeah, that’s a scummy move. But I honestly don’t think that’s the case here.
http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2008/08/watchmen-lawsui.html
BTW, there is the article from August. Could be wrong for all I know, but I only have what I know to go by. Either way.
Seems to me that FOX should be talking to Larry Gordon and not WB. If they signed a deal with him and he is refusing to buy out then that is his deal. I sounds to me like FOX just wants to go after the bigger fish here. But once again I am not a lawyer for FOX so this is all speculation. If Larry Gordon has a outside deal with FOX that is his business and not Warner’s.
Once again I’m not arguing about the legality of what FOX is doing, only about whether what they are doing is purely based on greed and not, at all based on what is best for their audience. Which to me should be the focus. But this is a business, but curse me for hoping that the world was different.
Gordon isn’t trying to distribute the movie. Warner Bros is. Why would they sue him?
Fox said, “If you find someone to make the movie, you can come in and buy the distribution rights.” He found someone to make the movie, but nobody bought the rights. Thus, Fox would still own them, if this is all true.
It’s not about going after the bigger fish, it’s about going after the people trying to distribute a movie they own the rights to.
Of COURSE it’s all about greed. That’s why rights are picked up to begin with. But that’s really a moot point, and it’s true of both sides. Warner Bros could simply buy the rights from Fox, or pay them a portion of the Gross, and this would all be a non-issue. But both people think they are right, and so they will both be to blame for dragging this out.
I’m not on the side of FOX of WB. I’m on the side of the movie. Is anyone even thinking about what the movie wants? Because I think it just really wants to be watched. Isn’t that what a movie’s lot in life is supposed to be? And if this stupid lawsuit stops the movie from being watched… well I just don’t think that’s very fair at all.
I’ve just come to the conclusion that you (Randy) don’t want to see the movie made.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_en_ot/film_watchmen_suit
“Fox claims it never fully relinquished story rights from its deal made in the late 1980s, and sued Warner Bros. in February.”
They sued them in February, that was well into production. I’m not asking that they just let WB ignore their rights to the movie. But how about a little friendly heads up, that they at least thought they owned the rights.
I understand that there is a difference between what is legal and what is right, however I just wish it wasn’t that way. Even if what FOX is doing is legal that doesn’t mean I have to like it.
Actually, I’ve been reading people say that they did go to them and tell them they had Distribution rights, and they were willing to sell them. But Warner believed that they had no claim on the rights, so took their chances with the court case.
I have no actual proof about this, so I’m looking for something more than a discussion to figure out the whole story. But either way, like I said, it takes time to make a court case, and that has to be done before you file the case. In addition, they have to make sure that the movie is actually going to be made, and not just shelved.
You said the movie has been being made for 2 years. February is 9 months ago. That means the movie was 15 months old when the court case was filed. That’s slow, but not unreasonable. Especially considering Paramount had been working on the movie in 2005, but ended up shelving it. Are they supposed to sue everyone that picks up the rights? This is about distribution, not production.
Now please stop arguing with “you don’t want to see the movie made.” That’s a pouty way of showing how biased people are being. What I want to see, and what is logical are two completely different issues. I don’t want to see the damn movie delayed either. But Fox deserves their money if what they say is true.
Or maybe it was a joke Randy, why would I assume you don’t want to see this movie. I mean I’m not in the business of assuming anything, or that just because a company tells me that they own rights to a movie that they are telling the truth. I am however in the business of trying to say that this whole situation sucks. I don’t care who is right and who is wrong, they both should have handled the situation better, however I just think that the timing is bad. I just want the movie to be released, I don’t care by who, it just seems to me that since WB actually made the movie that they should have some right to it, and that if FOX wanted to make a claim on the movie it should have been done before production. I’m not saying sue WB, but just tell them that they owned the rights. You are just one of the only people i know of that is defending FOX’s actions. and that’s fine, more power to you. But as long as you do that its going to make it seem like you are against the movie.
“Snyder hoped to have principal photography take place from June–September 2007, but filming was delayed until September 17, 2007.”
…
“In February 2008, 20th Century Fox brought a lawsuit against Warner Bros. that alleged copyright infringement on the Watchmen film property. The studio believes that it retained the rights to make the film—or at the very least distribute it—no matter how many studios Watchmen has passed through, and is seeking to block its release.”
September to February is 5 months. That’s really quite reasonable to me.
“Through producer Lawrence Gordon, Fox had bought the rights to the graphic novel in 1986. Fox alleges that when it put the project into turnaround in 1994, a separate 1991 deal that transferred some of the rights to Gordon still gave them the option of retaining distribution and sequel rights to the film, and a share of the profits, should it be made by any other studio. Fox’s interpretation of the 1994 turnaround deal also meant that Gordon would not fully control the rights until the studio’s development costs (estimated by Fox at $1 million) had been reimbursed.”
So, they wanted their $1 million dollars to be reimbursed to give up full rights. Again, for the rights to the movie, that’s not unreasonable.
“Despite originally passing on the project, Fox also alleged that its agreement with Gordon contained a “changed elements” clause, meaning that if Gordon changed any of the key creative personnel on the film, Fox would have first option on participation. The studio said that Gordon did not inform them of Snyder’s joining the production in 2005.”
So, Fox had dibs on distribution rights, if they weren’t bought out. They passed on the first movie, which is why people are arguing that they lost those rights. However, according to them, their contract stated that anytime the movie got changed, they got first dibs on the new version. Again, not unreasonable, because just because they don’t want to spend money on a movie they foresee being a flop doesn’t mean they don’t want to exercise their rights on a better version.
“After passing through the hands of several studios, Warner Bros. began developing Watchmen in 2005. Fox alleges that it contacted Warner Bros. before production began and told the studio that it had violated Fox’s 1991 and 1994 deals with Gordon. Warner Bros. claimed that it was originally unaware of either deal, and that in 2005 Fox had declined to produce the Hayter screenplay that formed the basis of the production.”
So, again, it seems that Fox is stating they did in fact NOT wait until this point to raise a fuss, but instead did it prior to production. Warner Bros. felt that Fox had passed it’s rights away, and chose to go on with production.
Fox then prepared their case, and filed the lawsuit 5 months after filming started.
So again, why is it Fox at fault here? Warner had just as many chances to make this go away. But they wanted as much of a profit as they could get out of it.
I’m not arguing that this doesn’t suck. I’m not arguing that this isn’t about greed and money. But I am arguing that Fox should be trying to get what belongs to them, if it does in fact belong to them. And I’m also arguing that this is as much Gordon and Warner’s fault as it is Fox’s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen_movie
I’m the only one defending Fox’s actions? Read the comments On AICN. I’m in the minority, of course. People want to see it made, and they don’t care what agreements have to be broken or who the money goes to. It’s logical to assume people care about the consumer side of things more than the business side.
But I’m certainly not alone.
“If Warner had hired Michael Bay to make Watchmen into a mindless POS action flick, or fucking mugged Peter Jackson in a dark alley and jacked his Hobbit script and filmed it, you’d all be screaming “WTF Warners, you can’t just fucking steal Fox’s intellectual property ’cause you feel like it.” But they made something you like, so the rules are different. Idiots. Get out of your mom’s basement and get laid.”
…
“This is clearly legal malpractice. Someone didn’t do their job before the movie was greenlit. That man or woman should probably lose his or her job. See if the companies can maybe recoup some money from the undoubtedly huge lawfirm that represents said 900 dollar an hour hack. ”
…
“Let’s be clear here- Fox isn’t claiming that no one else had the rights to MAKE the movie. They’re just saying that they still own the rights to DISTRIBUTE it. Essentially, they’re saying, hey thanks for taking all the financial risks, now we want all the profits. There wasa similar problem with the Hobbit- New Line never intended to make the movie, they bought the rights to make it so that no one else would make it when they learned that Lord of the Rings was being done big budget. So when they decided to make it, they had to deal with the distribution rights as aseperate issue. Fox is playing slimy, but be clear that they didn’t stop this movie being made because they didn’t own the rights to make it- just the right to distribute it.”
…
“Who was the clown genius that green lit this production before making sure they had all the rights to the material? Seems to me Warners and Paramount made a complete dumb ass move here and OF COURSE Fox is going to cash in on it. They have the legal recourse to do so. Dogs fuck the pope, no fault of theirs”
And there are tons more where that came from (http://www.aintitcool.com/talkback_display/39590)
Just because you see the issue from a different point of view doesn’t mean you have to paint me as being unreasonable in my view point. Plenty of people see the issue as what it is. A massive mess that needs to be straightened out, but hopefully won’t cause huge issues with the release from our perspective. If it does, it sucks. It really, really sucks. But so does a TV series getting canceled, rights never being picked up for an awesome property, etc. It happens. But things like this need to be worked out. Without this legal crap, things would be a lot worse.
And stop closing the comments. You wanted the discussion. You are getting it.
I’m with Scott. All this legal B.S. means to me is that I might not get to see the movie when its was promised to me. I don’t care which studio gets my money, as long as its the movie Zach Snyder made.
I think Fox should hire Randy as their legal analyst
Randy I am trying to put a stop to the argument, by not continuing it anymore.
Then don’t continue it. But everyone else has that right. I sent an email about it to the list, if you want to dispute that.
In the meantime, I hope that everyone participating in this or any discussion on the site takes it for what it is. A discussion about a passion of ours.
I don’t get angry over these discussions, and I hope nobody else does either. It’s easy to get lost in the heated discussion and take things wrong. I don’t think we’ll find two people on this site that agrees about every single issue. That’s the fun of it all.
BTW, I did see this before, but forgot where it was, and couldn’t find it during the previous discussion. I think it really points out how confusing of a case this really is, and how it is not black and white at all.
Gordon, the producer that has been trying to get the movie made for 20+ years was supposed to testify on behalf of Warner Brothers against Fox. However, he suddenly realized that he couldn’t tell the difference between what Fox had told him, and what his lawyers had told him. So he refused to testify in the case. As such, the court now refuses to take anything he says into consideration.
I definitely don’t think Fox’s actions are as shady as some of the other stuff happening in this case. As I see more details, I begin to think that Warner Brothers just really screwed up in this situation. They had the chance to buy the rights to begin with, and none of this would have happened. But they decided that they didn’t believe Fox, and wanted to fight it out instead.
We deserve a movie, and these studios need a swift kick upside the rear. But I guess this is what happens when a contract is 20 years old. They probably didn’t have the same techniques back then as they do now, which is likely why it isn’t clear at all.
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/watchmen-ruling-with-friends-like-this/
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/shocker-federal-judge-to-side-with-fox-in-warner-bros-watchman-lawsuit/
He’s really cleaned up his act and seems happy, so good for him.Report this comment as spam or abuse